[Tue 10 Oct, 02:15]

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21. Re: self-defence

Me again....To the poster above who says: "As I said in my earlier post the place where I think self defence classes would have the most use is in doors where the woman knows her attacker" 8 out of 10 physical attacks against women are by someone they know.

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Anonymous

[Tue 10 Oct, 14:23]

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22. Re: self-defence

Many years ago I saw a fight between a small girl and the strongest boy in my class. The small girl had some judo proficiency, twisted the arm of the boy, and the big muscular boy was screaming and crying like a baby. So even with with limited methods of self-defense, you can win against a much stronger opponent.

Most of you will use a safety belt when driving. Driving is still dangerous, using a safety belt may even make you careless, but if you survive 90% of all accidents without major injuries, it is worth to use.

Many of the posts above see the world from a male street-fighter perspective. How often are women engaged in ultimate street- or bar-fights? Hardly any sexual assaults starts with a punch, but there is a process of escalation, many opportunities to use your selfdefence-skills. You should not resist a heavily armed robber, but if a non-armed mugger looks for a female victim, the moment of surprise is on your side.

And finally, fitness and some selfdefence skills will make you more attractive for the male you are interested in.

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Anonymous

[Tue 10 Oct, 21:56]

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23. Re: self-defence

I was poster #12. Anyway, as far as big vs. small, yes the bigger person has the advantage, and like someone said, even the boxing and martial arts tournaments have weight classes, BUT an attack and self defense is still different. To me, being attacked (by anyone - no matter what the size) is like going to gambling in Vegas - the house(or in this case the attacker) ALWAYS has the advantage - they call the shots (when, where, how). But with optimum play and strategy, the gambler (or defender) has a BETTER CHANCE at winning (though the house still has the edge). Also, in a tournament, both parties are "ready", and are not trying to kill each other - no matter how bloody the ULTIMATE FIGHTING CHAMPIONSHIP is - they are not trying to kill each other (maybe beat each other senseless - but that's not the same thing). For instance, people here talk about bar fights - well Marc "Animal" Macyoung (he writes for Paladin press and teaches reality based self defense) wrote an interesting post on the "bladeforum.com" site. It was titled "Why I don't call myself a knifefighter". While he was in the prime of his streetfighting days, this old, fat, bald guy really "fucked him up". Why?? He was there to fight, the old guy was there to kill. I sometimes experiment with different techniques, and one day just grabbed my own throat, and found out that when I squeezed kinda hard (not really really hard mind you) not only was I choking - but I couldn't move my arms or legs - like I was paralyzed. Well, I tried this technique on a lightweight boxer friend of mine (who had VERY FAST hands) AND on a 280lbs. friend of mine (who plays rugby and is very tough. I put on 8oz gloves on their hands (very lightweight) and told them that as soon as I said "now", I was going to squeeze their throats, and at that split second - wanted them to punch me in the face as FAST as they can. Neither could do it. The bigger opponent and ALSO the attacker will always have the edge, AND you shouldn't go around feeling invincible (because you're not), BUT I still think realistic self defense training has it's place and may save a life. It may like having only one bullet in a gun, someone may say "what's one bullet gonna do"? But what if that was all you needed, but didn't have it. Same with self defense, what if you were given many opportunities to defend yourself (maybe the attacker is just stupid), but just don't know what to do? My 2cents.

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Smoker

[Wed 11 Oct, 00:22]

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24. Re: self-defence

Poster #23, Some very good points, this is turning into a very good thread.

I think you really hit the nail on the head with your post #12 with the "Fear is the handcuffs that bind you" point. I think this really is the core weakness with women's self-defence classes. It always is one thing to be able to do a technique in a split second, perfectly in a class situation and quite another one to actually do it while under a surprise attack. This is why I put a little less faith in the outcome of a weak girl and strong boy fight than poster #22. I just think that a situation where both parties know the violent confrontation is coming like the reference to two kids in the same class is a lot different than the typical street or date rape confrontation. The big problem is how to teach a women to just let the adrenaline take over, don't think about consequences and execute the technique in real life the way you did in practice in class.

Also, I do think however in my previous posts I emphasised a street attack rather than the more probable situation of being attacking in doors in an apartment by someone the victim knows like the date rapist, crazy ex-boy friend etc. The problem with the attack by someone the victim knows is the first impulse is to try to talk the attacker out of it or just show him you will get physical if you have to. This might stop a lot of potential attacks before they get going but if the attacker is determined the victim has just telegraphed her intention of defending herself with violence if necessary, thus the element of surprise is gone for her successful defence. I just don't see any good logical rule of thumb to this paradox. Should the victim show they are serious about defending themselves in the hope that the attacker with be intimidated and back off or should a victim play dumb, draw the attacker in and then surprise him with the martial arts technique even if this option might encourage an attacker to initiate and carry out an attack they would have been intimidated out of? Whew, kind of loooong sentence there.

I really don't know the best choice; can any women out there tell me what the current rule of thumb is being taught in women's self defence classes to deal with an attacker indoors the victim knows?

Smoker

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Anonymous

[Wed 11 Oct, 02:19]

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25. Re: self-defence

Again me with some facts. Great thread still and response to: "one day just grabbed my own throat, and found out that when I squeezed kinda hard not only was I choking - but I couldn't move my arms or legs - like I was paralyzed.Well, I tried this technique on a lightweight boxer friend of mine AND on a 280lbs.friend of mine (who plays rugby and is very tough. I put on 8oz gloves on their hands (very lightweight) and told them that as soon as I said "now", I was going to squeeze their throats, and at that split second - wanted them to punch me in the face as FAST as they can. Neither could do it." The point is not to punch the person, it's to BREAK THE CHOKEHOLD!!! Of course they couldn't punch you, but if they tried some release moves I know, they would have been out of the chokehold in seconds and moving on to some disabling techniques like a knee to the groin, a snap kick to the kneecap or a hammer fist to the temple.

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Anonymous

[Wed 11 Oct, 12:36]

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26. Re: self-defence

I'm #12 and 23. #25 - no insult intended - but I think you are dreaming. In the movies, where you always see someone choking the hero - you see the villain and hero struggling for a while - but in reality, if someone has a firm grip around your throat - it only takes a millisecond to push the ADAM'S APPLE through his windpipe. If you ever saw the ULTIMATE FIGHTING CHAMPIONSHIP, when these people apply a choke - they put pressure around the cartroid arteries on the sides of the neck, and NOT the windpipe - because you can kill someone that way. In fact, sometimes when police put a chokehold on someone, they do it the same way BUT if you are really struggling, you can actually kill yourself, because you yourself are applying pressure on the windpipe. Also, a person can be killed if the cartroid arteries are held too long - a person applying the choke should release their opponent AS SOON as they feel the body goes limp. DON'T GET ME WRONG - while someone is APPLYING the choke, there might be a few things you could do - like twist your neck or control his hands or elbows - BUT once it's applied - that's all she wrote. You must understand - in competion or even in a self defense class - the choke is DANGEROUS and must be applied carefully - therefore when someone does it, they usually apply pressure slower (not slowly) and squeeze tighter, tighter, tighter and NOT brutally "wringing your fucken neck". Imagine a small puppy (with a soft neck) - if you wanted to just put him to sleep, you start putting pressure around his neck and get tighter and tighter - if you wanted to kill him - you just "squish his fucken neck (throat)". Also, many people believe that if someone is choking you, you can can just hold your breath. WRONG - when someone is really choking you - seems like your whole body shuts down and you become paralyzed. If you think I'm wrong - have someone grab you by your throat and squeeze (NOT real real hard, but kinda hard) - you'll see what I mean. As a last note, I check out different self defense schools and see what they teach. I went to this place that taught KRAV MAGA, and the instructor wanted to "impress" us, so she asked a volunteer (in this case - me) to try and choke her. told her that I didn't think it would be a good idea, and she told me "don't worry - I won't hurt you". Also, I think she thought I was going to come at her in the FRANKENSTEIN fashion - outreached arms, with elbows locked (I'm not that stupid). When I came at her, I made sure I "shot" in, had my hands around her throat, with my elbows tucked in to my sides (better leverage for me in case she wants to manipulate th elbow joint), stuck my knee up in front of me (just in case she wants to kick or knee), and tucked my head into her shoulder (in case she want to attack my face). I could have killed her. When she didn't get out in specified time, another instructor broke us up. She was really shaken up. They asked me about my background and I just told them that I study human reactions and responses. I told told them I don't care what they teach, but there are 2 criterias that are MUSTS: 1. It must be FAST. 2. It must be BRUTAL. I mean, even if you do a simple wrist lock against an agressive attacker - it still must be fast and brutal. Peace.

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Anonymous

[Wed 11 Oct, 13:17]

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27. Re: self-defence

Quick addendum to #26 - the only reason it lasted that long with that KRAV MAGA instructor (by the way, I'm not cutting down their methods - they are better than most of what I've seen out there), is because I was only putting pressure (and mind you - not EXTREME pressure) around the cartroids. Had I crushed her windpipe - that would've taken a split second.

JoninBangkok

[Wed 11 Oct, 14:04]

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28. Chokeholds

It's a great discussion. Mutual respect being showm. I don't think 25 is "dreaming", I think its possible for certain people with a very high level of training under certain circumstances to break a choke hold. On the other hand, #26 and #27 I agree that chokeholds are nasty. Here's a good link: http://martialarts.about.com/recreation/martialarts/gi/dyna­mic/offsite.htm?site=http://bjj.org/articles/971006-choke/.

I have used chokde holds and they are submission holds. There really is no practical defense that I know of once they have already been applied. The defense is not to get into one in the first place. However, you need to be pretty good to execute the move in the first place. Have leverage, size, speed, etc. Since we're talking about women defending themselves agao\inst a larger attacker, I just don't think this is practical alternative. If someone sees you tryiog to grab their neck the first instinct is to push them away, whether this is by punching, pushing or whatever. The attacker is still active.

The good thing about Muay Thai is we spar full contact and you can get some idea about what techniques work and what techniques don't. Classes that are based too much on theory shoould be taken with a grain of salt.

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JonInBangkok

[Wed 11 Oct, 16:02]

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29. Pepper Spray

Really slos at work today. Here's another site about pepper spray:http://www.emergency.com/pprspry.htm

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Anonymous

[Wed 11 Oct, 20:03]

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30. Re: self-defence

Ugh! What environment are you living in. Lawful behaviour is still the norm (I am talking of Asia, Europe and Australia, America and Africa may be somewhat different) , some nasty things like hold-ups and sexually motivated assaults do happen, this is the field where self-defense is useful. In every country there are some maniacs who go out to kill, but outside prison walls it is very unlikely zou bump into them. This kind of risk is minimal compared with smoking, traffic and obesity.

Well, seems that the women have left the discussion anyway

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